War Gaming a Trump-DeSantis Primary Without Taking Sides

CLAY: This is a conversation I’m having on and off more and more with people. I’m curious what you think. Let’s say that Trump decided not to run in 2024. You and I both expect Trump will run, that he’ll be in the Republican nominating battle that will go on all throughout 2023 and into 2024 when the primary season starts. But, if Trump decided, hey, you know what, I’m stepping back, how do you think everybody else who is running would be treated?

Have we now entered across the proverbial Rubicon, if you want a history analogy — you’re an old-school history guy, Buck, you would appreciate that. Have we crossed the Rubicon into an era where it doesn’t matter who the Republican candidate is or who the candidates are for national office, all of them will be treated as existential threats to democracy. And this derangement syndrome is going to pass from Trump on to the Republicans no matter who is running? Or will everybody who has been arguing Trump is the biggest threat to democracy ever, when he steps off the stage, could be after he wins re-election in 2024 and serves four more years — I’m genuinely curious how the Washington Post, the MSNBCs, the New York Times of the world — are going to handle everyone else.

What’s your thought, will it transfer, the Trump virus of, he’s going to destroy democracy, is it going to be passed whoever the next Republican candidate for president is, or will they treat them differently?

BUCK: Well, Mitt Romney, who was about as edgy and defensive as Ned Flanders from the Simpsons.

CLAY: That’s the perfect analogy for who Mitt Romney is. He’s Ned Flanders.

BUCK: Yes, he was giving cancer to people while strapping his dog to the roof and building binders full of women. Will they at least go through a process of whoever the Republican nominee is, is a carrying of the torch of Trumpism and therefore just as much of a danger to our democracy? Yes, that will happen, but it won’t be sustainable. The thing about Trump is that he reveled in sticking his thumb right in the eye of the mainstream Democrat corporate media. And it was amazing. It was highly entertainment for those of us working in media, highly entertaining for the country. Nobody else had done that before.

I think about even during the George W. Bush administration, there was always a sense New York Times, it’s very important, Washington Post, very important paper, we’ve got to give access to their reporters and treat them with a bit of deference. Now, Trump sat with too many New York Times reporters, too, gave them more access than he probably should have. But he was also taking shots at CNN and all the rest of it. They were completely enraged by this. They took it personally. I don’t think you would have that with “name other Republican nominee.” I’ve got to say if Trump runs and Ron DeSantis does not run, does any other Republican, does any other Republican really want to get into that royal rumble?

CLAY: That’s a great question.

BUCK: I think Trump runs unopposed if Ron DeSantis doesn’t run against him. Liz Cheney will run for president. We’re all going to go, oh, that’s cute.

CLAY: Yes, she’s about to get wrecked, by the way, in Wyoming. Those polls are coming out. She’s going to get destroyed by Wyoming Republicans in that primary. I think you’re right. If DeSantis runs and I think DeSantis is going to run I think and Trump is going to run, that’s the two 800-pound gorillas. They’re going to be in the ring throwing heavyweight punches against each other.

I think Mike Pompeo is going to run. I think Mike Pence is going to run. I think Liz Cheney is going to run, to your point. I don’t think any of those guys or girls have any ability to cut through the noise. And if DeSantis doesn’t run — he’s 100% going to run — but if he were not to run, I think basically the field would get cleared for Trump. I think DeSantis is the only person that can go and throw some punches in the ring with Trump. I think Trump would eviscerate everybody else.

BUCK: I don’t think they would view it as worth it. Who other than DeSantis, who would step into that ring in a serious way? They might stage debates to see who the VP is; and to be fair, the VP, under a second Trump term, would be a really big deal because you are only getting one term of Trump if he runs and wins again, right?

CLAY: That’s right.

BUCK: So the VP candidate — I think one lesson we take from the Biden fiasco is you’ve got to actually think of the VP as somebody who might have to step up and step in. You’ve got to think of this not just as, oh, you know, it’s an afterthought.

CLAY: And so everybody out there knows, Buck and I are not endorsing anybody ever until the Republican primaries are over.

BUCK: We’re just war gaming it.

CLAY: Yes. So I’ll be speaking at DeSantis’s event down in Florida this weekend. Then I’m going to Bedminster to hang out at the Trump LIV golf event and be perhaps the worst Pro-Am player in the history of Pro-Ams because I’ve not played very much golf, really, at all. We’ll have some fun talking about that next week, Buck, because I think some of the shots I’m going to hit on the Pro-Am course on Thursday next week up in New Jersey, outside New York City, at Bedminster, they’re going to be unbelievably bad.

Charles Barkley is also playing. If you’ve ever seen Charles Barkley’s golf swing, he and I side by side would maybe be the worst tandem in Pro-Am history.

BUCK: (Imitating “Caddyshack”) Clay Travis, Cinderella story at Bedminster. Oh, he’s at the tee. Oh, it’s on the green. There you go.

CLAY: It is not going to be pretty. They ask you at the Pro-Am, here’s an example, Buck, you’ll appreciate this. They say, hey, are you going to be bringing your own clubs or are you okay just using the clubs at the course? I’m using the clubs at the course. I don’t want to have to travel and worry about carrying my golf clubs around because I’m headed to upstate northern Michigan with my wife in early August.

So I’m going straight from New York City to Michigan. And the last thing I want to do is have to worry about carrying those clubs everywhere. So I’m using the course clubs; and no matter what clubs I was going to be using, it wasn’t going to be a pretty picture.